Makarov threaded barrel

After installing the new threaded barrel in my Russian Makarov (details to be found below), I got around to reassembling the rest of the pistol last night. Now given that the Makarov has fewer parts than most …

SilencerCo Threaded Barrel For Glock. Our Price: $139.00. Save 38%. As low as: $89.00. America's Silencer Dealer. Capitol Armory is the nations largest SilencerCo, Dead Air and Thunder Beast dealer! Your number one source for silencers, suppressors, NFA weapons and all the accessories you need for maximum suppression.$74.97. AlphaWolf Barrel For M/42 Conversion to 9x18 Makarov Threaded 1/2 x 28 - $74.97. Posted by EDDIEeddie. Updated by JamesS 3 days ago. More deals …These Alphawolf Glock 42 conversion barrels are chambered in 9x18 Makarov. Simply a drop in and go barrel are machined from 416 stainless steel and heat treated to RC 40-42 then a SBN ( salt bath nitride ) coating is applied to to raise the rockwell hardness to 60. These 9x18 Makarov barrels feature button rifling and a three stage …Barrel Features: PROUDLY MADE IN THE USA! Fits Ruger LC380 ; Designed for lead, plated, or jacketed ammunition; ... AlphaWolf Barrel For M/42 Conversion to 9x18 Makarov Threaded 1/2 x 28. AW-429X18TH. $74.97 $149.95. AlphaWolf Barrel For M/35 Conversion to 357 Sig Stock Length. AW-35357N.a Walther PPK , with a 1/2x28 barrel extension. Used with a 9mm suppressor ( no recoil booster required) will be quiter compared to the same set-up in 380. But an HK USP9/ SIG P226 with subsonic ammo, used with a Trident, Octane, Osprey will be quiter than the Walther PPK set-up. 1.He has started his own trader just for those that love the Makarov pistols and accessories. in this forum in the entire site. ... WTB 9x18 Makarov threaded barrel. Pham27; May 27, 2015; 7 4K Jan 14, 2024. by Gatorade. W. WTB: Soviet Sight Adjustment Tool. w4rlord117; Dec 6, 2023; 0 ...Makarov Barrel Pin. $3.99 Add to Cart Details. Makarov Ejector & Slide Stop. This item is out of stock. Details. Makarov Extractor. $9.99 ... Makarov Trigger Guard Spring Plunger. $4.99 Add to Cart Details. Join our Newsletter. GO. …

Apr 23, 2023 · Norinco model 59 9mm Makarov w/ Threaded Barrel. This Pistol is Cool! Chinese made by Norinco, known as a copy of the Soviet-Russian Makarov. This Item Is: Mfg: Norinco. MODEL: 59. CALIBER: 9mm Makarov. BARREL LENGTH: 4.25" Threaded. CAPACITY: 8. MAKAROV .380 ACP BARREL EXTENDED AND THREADED NEW MADE IN THE USA. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Find great deals on for makarov and makarov magazine.Barrel, .380 ACP Conversion, Chrome Lined, Blued Finish, New Original EastGerman PISTOL MAKAROVAlphaWolf Barrel For Ruger LC380 Conversion to 9x18 Makarov Stock Length. AW-LC380-9X18N. $134.95.In industrial applications, a tight fit is essential for everything from water pipes to building support pillars. Thread gages make sure that pipes screw together smoothly and bolt...Cracker Barrel is a beloved restaurant chain known for its Southern charm and delicious home-style cooking. While they offer a wide variety of menu options throughout the day, thei...The FNX-45 is a larger hammer-fired pistol chambered in .45ACP. Like the 509, the FNX-45 also has a tactical configuration that features a threaded barrel. It comes optic ready, has upgraded suppressor height sights, a 5.3-inch threaded barrel, and a standard 15-round capacity.

MAKAROV PISTOL BARREL CAL. 380. Barrel for Makarov pistol. Chambered in caliber 380 You can simply switch the barrel and use your pistol with a cheaper and easiest to …Designed around the Walther PP/PPK series of pistols. Like the German handguns, the Makarov is straight blowback-operated and can be shot in double action. Its cartridge, the 9x18mm Markorov, has a no-typical diameter—.365″. Due to trade restrictions, the pistol had a very short importation window–3 years. While wildly used in Soviet ...For example, in my discord I have made this makarov support 2 extra attachments, threaded barrel and as an addon. The Makarov pistol is a compact, semi-automatic handgun developed in the Soviet Union in the late 1940s and early 1950s. It was intended to replace the older TT-33 pistol and Nagant M1895 revolver.The only threaded barrel I could get was in 9mm Makarov. I had to turn down the rim of the brass to make it fit the pistol, but it worked fine. My suppressor plans were dropped after I read that blowback pistols the size of 380 and higher were poor choices for suppression due to ejection port noise. ... Suppressed Makarov. Randy, …

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Up for sale is a threaded 380 Makarov barrel, the rifling is still strong and bore is bright. The thread pitch for this barrel is 1/2x32. Shipping for this item is a flat $15. Buy Threaded 380 Makarov barrel: GunBroker is the largest seller of Pistol Barrels Pistol Parts Gun Parts All: 998784066. If you’re a fan of stylish and high-quality furniture and home decor, chances are you’ve heard of Crate and Barrel. With its wide selection of modern designs and timeless classics,...Apr 12, 2017 · Oct 2010. Posts. 1,193. Feedback Score. 2 (100%) I have a Russian commercial Makarov in .380 as well as a couple of Bulgies (military), and an East German all in 9x18 of course, so I like Maks. However, the small 9MM that has come into its own over the past ten plus years has replaced these in many ways. 04-12-17, 21:32 #4. Makarov. APEX Gun Parts is your source for hard to find gun parts, parts kits, and accessories. We specialize in all military surplus weapons from AK-47s, AR-15s, Mausers, CETME, Enfields, UZIs, and much more! We set ourselves apart by supplying unique parts at a good value and standing by our products by offering outstanding customer service.There’s even a 9×18 Makarov conversion barrel for the G42. Specifications: Lone Wolf Alpha Wolf Threaded Barrel for GLOCK 19. Barrel Length: 4.60″ Thread Size: 1/2-28 Finish: salt bath nitride black Material: 416 stainless steel Warranty: Lifetime MSRP: $159.95. Ratings (out of five stars):The Makarov PM is like a Walther PPK on steroids, and it’s built like a small tank. ... Barrel Length: 3.68 inches Width (Widest Point): 1.16 inches

Has bluing wear, this looks like it was used however the bore is MINT.Price $19.95. RUSSIAN MAKAROV LEATHER HOLSTER. Price $24.95. MAKAROV PISTOL OPERATOR MANUAL, DDR EAST GERMAN ISSUE. Price $12.95. MAKAROV PISTOL REPAIR MANUAL, DDR EAST GERMAN ISSUE. Price $12.95. MAKAROV GRIP SCREW USED, FLUTED.153 posts · Joined 2007. #10 · Mar 8, 2013. Its not done on either of them. I was actually thinking about removing my existing barrel and sending it off to tornado tech to have them install an extension that is threaded. I wanted to use it as a suppressor host. I wanted a standard barrel in case I ever wanted to return it to stock configuration.Dec 17, 2020 · The 9x 18 Makarov is yet another of those durable, relatively inexpensive Eastern Bloc handguns that became readily available in this country after the dissolution of the Evil Empire. Its fixed barrel can be removed with a pin punch and special barrel press to allow the installation of an extended threaded barrel. The threaded portion of the ... The Makarov PM is like a Walther PPK on steroids, and it’s built like a small tank. ... Barrel Length: 3.68 inches Width (Widest Point): 1.16 inchesAPEX Gun Parts is your source for hard to find gun parts, parts kits, and accessories. We specialize in all military surplus weapons from AK-47s, AR-15s, Mausers, CETME, Enfields, UZIs, and much more! We set ourselves apart by supplying unique parts at a good value and standing by our products by offering outstanding customer service.Cracker Barrel is a beloved American restaurant chain known for its delicious comfort food and charming country store. While many people are familiar with the delightful experience...WTB 9x18 Makarov threaded barrel. Jump to Latest Follow 4K views 7 replies 7 participants last post by Gatorade Jan 14, 2024. P. Pham27 Discussion starter 5 posts · Joined 2015 Add to quote; Only show this user #1 · May 27, 2015. If you have one to sell or know where to get one, please let me know. ...Russian "high-capacity" Makarov with Federal threaded barrel installed; Bulgarian Makarov with Makawrap grip; Chinese Makarov - [in hand] Other 9x18M pistols; Baikal Russian Makarov instruction booklet; Makarov specification sheet in Russian (Cyrillic) and English; Cross-sectional view of the Makarov; Close-up of Makarov slide, side and bottom ...

MAKAROV PISTOL BARREL CAL. 380. Barrel for Makarov pistol. Chambered in caliber 380 You can simply switch the barrel and use your pistol with a cheaper and easiest to find ammo. The original magazine will work with both calibers 9x18 Makarov or 380. New old stock. The price is for 1 barrel.

He has started his own trader just for those that love the Makarov pistols and accessories. in this forum in the entire site. ... WTB 9x18 Makarov threaded barrel. Pham27; May 27, 2015; 7 4K Jan 14, 2024. by Gatorade. W. WTB: Soviet Sight Adjustment Tool. w4rlord117; Dec 6, 2023; 0 ...The Makarov PM (t) 9x18PM pistol (PM (t)) is a pistol in Escape from Tarkov. A semi-mythical Makarov pistol with an extended threaded barrel for equipping a sound suppressor. Some claim it was a limited production series manufactured in Bulgaria, whilst others insist on it being East German, or...I've been looking for one on and off for a few years. I missed two threaded barrel Makarovs on GB, one I was beat out and the second was overpriced. I figure now that I'd just get another Mak and then add the barrel when I found one. There's probably old timer gunsmiths at old farms in Eastern Europe in dirt road towns and in mud huts in ... SKU: PM63B. UPC: 631661666078. Description. PM-63 9x18 Makarov Original Barrel. Upgrade or maintain your PM-63 with the PM-63 9x18 Makarov Original Barrel. Crafted as an authentic replacement barrel, this component ensures the reliability and performance of your firearm. Perfect for gunsmiths and enthusiasts, the original PM-63 barrel offers a ... M700 7.62x51 20 inch threaded barrel · M700 7.62x51 26 inch barrel · DVL-10 7.62x51 500mm barrel · DVL-10 M2 7.62x51 660mm barrel · M700 7.62x51 26 inch stainless steel barrel · M700 7.62x51 20 inch stainless steel threaded barrel · …Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for NORINCO 59 9x18 MAKAROV BARREL, RECOIL SPRING, MODEL MAKAROV IJ-70 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!I would keep the 9x18 barrel. The reasoning is 4 fold- 1: the 9x18 is exactly half way between 380acp and 9x19, 2: if you reload you can load it to almost preform to 9x19, 3: if you reload you can take 9x19 brass and cut it down to run in your mak, and 4: Russian and Chinese surplus ammo is cheap to practice with.For example, in my discord I have made this makarov support 2 extra attachments, threaded barrel and as an addon. The Makarov pistol is a compact, semi-automatic handgun developed in the Soviet Union in the late 1940s and early 1950s. It was intended to replace the older TT-33 pistol and Nagant M1895 revolver.SOLD - $40.00. Shipping: $5.00 (or Arrange local transfer) Accepted Payment Methods: Returns: No Returns. Description: Brand new, Made in America MAKAROV pistol barrels chambered in .380 auto. Designed with the Russian IJ-70 from Baikal in mind, these barrels might fit other Makarovs as well. Rechamber your 9x18 into .380 auto.Cracker Barrel is a beloved American restaurant chain known for its homestyle cooking and warm hospitality. One of the highlights of dining at Cracker Barrel is their full breakfas...

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The Makarov PM featured a heel magazine release, and the thumb safety doubled as a decocker when put on safe. ... Custom Hand Polished 1911 Government w/Threaded Barrel. USED. $2,499.99. UBERTI ...9x18 Makarov [+] Show more. In Stock Only Search Results for: "1 2x28 Threaded Barrel for Springfield Hellcat Pistols" The Springfield Armory Store ... Sig Sauer P320 AXG Combat 9mm Limited-Edition Flat Dark Earth Pistol with 4.6 Inch Threaded Barrel $1,199.99; In Stock Style: 320AXGCA-9-CW-CBT ...by Personal Defense World. March 23, 2018. Lone Wolf Distributors just announced it is expanding its AlphaWolf barrel lineup by offering 9×18 Makarov stock-length conversion barrels for the Ruger LC380. According to the press release, these barrels—which measure 3.14 inches long—are button-rifled with a three-stage honed bore.MAKAROV .380 ACP BARREL EXTENDED AND THREADED NEW MADE IN THE USA. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Find great deals on for makarov and makarov magazine.Oct 2010. Posts. 1,193. Feedback Score. 2 (100%) I have a Russian commercial Makarov in .380 as well as a couple of Bulgies (military), and an East German all in 9x18 of course, so I like Maks. However, the small 9MM that has come into its own over the past ten plus years has replaced these in many ways. 04-12-17, 21:32 #4.Baikal IJ70-18A 9mm Makarov Pistol - Sear & Slide Stop Spring. $5.95. $4.75 shipping. Great deals on Pistol Parts for Makarov. Trick out or upgrade your firearm with the largest gun parts selection at eBay.com. Fast & Free shipping on many items!Replace your Makarov barrel in a snap; Made from solid machined steel and aluminum components; Includes detailed instructions; Related Items. Makarov Magazine Loader (1) Your Price: $11.50 In Stock. Free Shipping. Makarov Dummy Supressor (0) Your Price: $30.00 In Stock. Free Shipping.Buy a This is an as new .380acp Makarov conversion barrel. This 4 14 barrel has a stainless finish. This b for sale by Jays Guns and Accessories on ... ….

Barrel changing q's - Bulgarian Makarovs. A while back I purchased a circle 10 Bulgarian MAK, labeled 9x18 but had the barrel changed to a threaded .380 ( it appears to be a FAC barrel). I have the original 9x18 barrel, and it is my intent to put it back in. I detest a pistol marked for one caliber and chambered in another, but that is my ...9mm Makarov to .380 barrel. One of the milsurp vendors is advertising used, excellent condition .380 cal Makarov barrels to convert the 9mm Makarovs from 9x18mm Makarov to .380 cal ACP. (Cheaper ammo, more variety.) There is a note that some minor fitting may be required. They are selling for $50 plus shipping.MAKAROV PM PISTOL. Products ( Total Items: 5 ) Sort by: Makarov Magazine Loader. $11.50. In Stock. Free Shipping. Makarov Dummy Supressor. $30.00. Search "Makarov .308 ACP Barrel" on Ebay and you'll find the link. Comes with extra parts and the barrel removal tool. Its not my listing just passing on the info. They rarely come up and it would make a sick silenced .380! Original Polish RADOM manufactured PM-63 RAK chrome lined SMG barrel, 6.125 inches long, 9x18 Makarov, blued steel in *Good* condition.Sold Individually.Includes the RADOM factory made barrel only (as pictured).Approximately 6.125 inches long with a chrome bore.Shows signs of wear, marring, grime, etc...Parts must be inspected and tested by …How to Remove and Replace your 380 acp or 9mm Barrel.If you need to I will rent you this tool just email me at [email protected] ThanksA longer light functions as a stand off device, threaded barrels and comps attached to threaded barrels does not. Reply reply ... Youre thinking of stuff like the makarov where the barrel pokes out the tiniest bit ahead of the slide when the gun is direct blowback. Since the barrel is fixed it doesnt go out of battery but any non direct ... MAKAROV .380 ACP BARREL EXTENDED AND THREADED NEW MADE IN THE USA. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Find great deals on for makarov and makarov magazine. Stainless Steel Threaded Barrel (1/2x 32 threads). It replaces the Makararov 9X18 Barrel. Also the Federal Barrel Press with directions, never opened is included. M/O only and $ 7.00 for shipping lower 48 States only. Thanks for looking. Payment and Shipping Instructions: M/O only and $ 7.00 for shipping lower 48 States only. Payment Methods: Firearm Discussion and Resources from AR-15, AK-47, Handguns and more! Buy, Sell, and Trade your Firearms and Gear. Makarov threaded barrel, Shop Lone Wolf Arms AlphaWolf Glock 43 9mm Threaded Barrel, 1/2x28 | 10% Off Highly Rated on 7 Reviews for Lone Wolf Arms AlphaWolf Glock 43 9mm Threaded Barrel, 1/2x28 + Free Shipping over $49. Toll-Free: +1-800-504-5897 Help Center Check Order Status, MAKAROV PM PISTOL. Products ( Total Items: 5 ) Sort by: Makarov Magazine Loader. $11.50. In Stock. Free Shipping. Makarov Dummy Supressor. $30.00., All pistol suppressors require a threaded pistol barrel. SilencerCo noticed a market need for high quality pistol barrels and we stepped in to offer them. Holding to the same commitment to quality as all of our products, the threaded barrels are tough enough to hold up under the harshest conditions. Made of 416R stainless steel and finished in ..., or Best Offer. +$5.99 shipping. NEW EAST GERMAN MAKAROV 9X18 CALIBER PISTOL CHROME LINED BARREL. New (Other) $160.00. surplusdoc (1,900) 100%. or Best Offer. +$10.00 shipping. Original Russian Makarov Barrel 9x18., Actually the .380 and 9X18 have similar bullet weights, similar velocity and similar recoil so while there may be some slight advantage to going with .380 over 9X18 in the Makarov you will still have an unlocked breech. On my makarov I removed the threaded barrel and returned it to its original non threaded barrel., The 9x18mm Makarov pistol, also known as the “PM” or Pistolet Makarova, is shown with the classic polymer, “red star” grips, a loaded magazine and a standard Makarov flapped holster. My experience with the Makarov pistol (also known as the “PM,” or Pistolet Makarova) goes back further than the lives of many Americans., Upgrade or maintain your PM-63 with the PM-63 9x18 Makarov Original Barrel. Crafted as an authentic replacement barrel, this component ensures the reliability and performance …, Barrel, 9 x 18 Makarov, 3.9", Chrome Lined, Matte Black, New Factory Original PA-63 KBI / KASSNAR. Shipment prohibited outside USA. Orders $75 and over ship for FREE in Contiguous USA ( see restrictions ). For rates, please view our shipping information. , We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us., Jan 9, 2023 ... Today we're looking at suppressors that can be bought from level 1 traders, either with no restrictions, using certain barters or after ..., After installing the new threaded barrel in my Russian Makarov (details to be found below), I got around to reassembling the rest of the pistol last night. Now given that the Makarov has fewer parts than most …, Nov 23, 2011 ... I have a Mak in 380 with the threaded barrel, also a couple other Russian Mak's in 9x18 one double Stack. ... 380 barrel for a Makarov for sale or ..., TSH77769 Discussion starter. 15 posts · Joined 2009. #1 · Nov 21, 2018. I'd like to mount a sound suppressor on my Makarov. So, I'm looking for a threaded 1/2x28 .380 barrel for my Makarov. The search is not going well. I sure could use an assist. Thanks. tsh77769., Oct 25, 2004 · The Federal extended/threaded barrels I believe are 4.2 inches. I do not intend to hunt with a Makarov, mainly concerned with 2 legged varmints. I would get the .380 barrel so as to be ammo compatible with my Colt Pony for normal everyday carry. Thanks in advance for any comments or input. , Join the #1 community for gun owners of the Northwest. We believe the 2nd Amendment is best defended through grass-roots organization, education, and advocacy centered around individual gun owners. It is our mission to encourage, organize, and support these efforts throughout Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming., Russian "high-capacity" Makarov with Federal threaded barrel installed; Bulgarian Makarov with Makawrap grip; Chinese Makarov - [in hand] Other 9x18M pistols; Baikal Russian Makarov instruction booklet; Makarov specification sheet in Russian (Cyrillic) and English; Cross-sectional view of the Makarov; Close-up of Makarov slide, side and …, L-R: .380 Auto, 9x18mm Makarov, 9x19mm Luger. Here are the tech specs of these barrels (from Lone Wolf’s website): Barrel Features: PROUDLY MADE IN THE USA! Fits Ruger LC380. Designed for lead, plated, or jacketed ammunition. Certified, stress relieved 416 stainless steel. Button rifled, three stage honed bore., Sep 26, 2012 · Fiocchi Shooting Dynamics ammo is roughly the same a the 9MM Makarov in energy (0.5*mass*velocity^2), probably a bit faster than stated from a longer threaded barrel. It's also .27 a round, roughly the same as Makarov ammo: Fiocchi Shooting Dynamics Pistol Ammunition 380AP, 380 ACP, Full Metal Jacket, 95 GR, 1010 fps, 50 R - Able Ammo , AlphaWolf Barrel For Ruger LC380 Conversion to 9x18 Makarov Stock Length. AW-LC380-9X18N. $134.95. , A single barrel of crude oil is equivalent to 42 gallons. On average, refineries can convert a single 42-gallon barrel of oil into either 12 gallons of diesel fuel, 4 gallons of je..., Tuning polyurethane overflow sleeve (I don’t know right translation) – 2 $ for any. Baikal Makarov MP-654K. Smooth barrel – 13 $. Smooth barrel with removable false-silencer – 29 $. Fluoroplastic sleeve between barrel and magazine – 3 $. O-ring between barrel and magazine – 0,5 $., A wide variety of aftermarket additions and replacements exist for the Makarov pistol, including replacement barrels, custom grips, custom finishes and larger sights with various properties to replace the notoriously small originals. A scope/light mount exists for the Makarov pistol but requires a threaded replacement barrel. Baikal , The threaded barrel is the most important piece of equipment for various firearms. The threading on the barrel piece of equipment is too specific to ensure a tight and secure fit for the muzzle device. This allows for easy attachment and detachment of the device as needed, making the firearm more versatile and adaptable to different shooting ..., If you’re a fan of stylish and high-quality furniture and home decor, chances are you’ve heard of Crate and Barrel. With its wide selection of modern designs and timeless classics,..., Replace your Makarov barrel in a snap; Made from solid machined steel and aluminum components; Includes detailed instructions; Related Items. Makarov Magazine Loader (1) Your Price: $11.50 In Stock. Free Shipping. Makarov Dummy Supressor (0) Your Price: $30.00 In Stock. Free Shipping., Fiocchi Shooting Dynamics ammo is roughly the same a the 9MM Makarov in energy (0.5*mass*velocity^2), probably a bit faster than stated from a longer threaded barrel. It's also .27 a round, roughly the same as Makarov ammo: Fiocchi Shooting Dynamics Pistol Ammunition 380AP, 380 ACP, Full Metal Jacket, 95 GR, 1010 fps, 50 R …, 9x18 Makarov [+] Show more. In Stock Only Search Results for: "1 2x28 Threaded Barrel for Springfield Hellcat Pistols" The Springfield Armory Store ... Sig Sauer P320 AXG Combat 9mm Limited-Edition Flat Dark Earth Pistol with 4.6 Inch Threaded Barrel $1,199.99; In Stock Style: 320AXGCA-9-CW-CBT ..., 2 x 20-round magazines (style may vary), and owner's manual. VZ 61 9x18 Makarov Satin Nickel Pistol from Czechpoint. This semi automatic 9mm Makarov pistol features a 4.53" threaded barrel and a cool satin nickel finish. Comes with 2 20 round magazines and owners manual and makes a great lighweight and portable firearm for any need., In industrial applications, a tight fit is essential for everything from water pipes to building support pillars. Thread gages make sure that pipes screw together smoothly and bolt..., Upgrade or maintain your PM-63 with the PM-63 9x18 Makarov Original Barrel. Crafted as an authentic replacement barrel, this component ensures the ..., This process can also be used with any caliber Makarov barrel. A standard socket can be used as the spacer, or one will be included with purchase of the .32 NAA barrels upon request. Once the new barrel is installed, the barrel pin hole must be drilled with a #31 drill bit, and can be done with a standard hand drill. , When it comes to finding the perfect gift, it can be hard to know where to start. But if you’re looking for something that’s truly unique and special, Texas True Threads is the per..., Custom .32 NAA Makarov (Left), IJ70-17AH converted to .32 NAA (center), Muzzle view comparison of .32 NAA and 9x18 Makarov Barrels (right) ... The removal process is the same, but the normal practice upon installing the new barrel is to use a threaded rod through the center of the barrel to pull the new barrel in place. There has been some ...